Ties with the Far East

As a researcher and lecturer, the ETH physics professor Manfred Sigrist knows Japan very well. We talked with him about the first Swiss in Japan, the Japanese love of detail and why it is a leading country worldwide in terms of research.

Researchers from both universities in areas from physics to materials science, nanoelectronics, energy and astrophysics are meeting for a scientific exchange. In what areas is Kyoto University a leading institution?
Manfred Sigrist: Mainly in in the areas of medicine and natural sciences such as physics. The first two Nobel laureates in physics were Hideki Yukawa and Shin’ichirō Tomonaga from Kyoto University. My superior at the Yukawa Institute, Prof. Toshihide Maskawa, was awarded the Nobel prize in physics in 2008.

You were a professor at Kyoto University from 1997 to 2001. Do you still collaborate with the university?
Our group works very closely with our Japanese colleagues in Kyoto as well as other universities, for example bringing out joint publications and fostering the exchange of young scientists.

Where do you see similarities and differences between Swiss and Japanese universities in terms of teaching and research?
Science sponsoring is organised in a similar way. Besides individual sponsoring analogous to the SNSF, they also have networks similar to our National Centres of Competence in Research. The public universities are autonomous and, like ETH Zurich, can also raise third-party funds from industry. Japanese universities still teach mainly in the Japanese language, as students do not yet feel very comfortable with English. But with growing numbers of foreign scientists, this is starting to change.

ETH is the Leading House for scientific collaboration with Japan. What advantages does working with Japan bring to Switzerland?
Here I can only speak for my own field. In material-oriented solid-state physics, Japan is at the forefront internationally. The state has invested in this field since the 1990s, and it has paid off. Nowadays, when researchers need material samples, they usually get the best ones available worldwide from Japan. Doing research there means being at the forefront of science, as many new developments start in Japan. Korea and China are trying to follow suit.

Japan spends about 3.5 per cent of its gross domestic product on education, Switzerland about 5.2 per cent. Both countries have few resources of their own and therefore depend economically on innovation. Does this mean that Switzerland and Japan are in the same boat?
Some say that Japanese and Swiss have similar mentalities. Both countries have a striking enthusiasm for innovation and technology. In Japan, this applies not only to economy but also to daily life. They love technical gadgets. My wife is Japanese; whenever we buy a new device, she finds out all of its functions in no time. While I am happy just knowing the basic functions, she wants to know and try out everything down to the last detail.

Japan was very isolated for 250 years. How has the country developed since then?
Since its opening around 1850, Japan has developed at an extraordinary pace in the areas of economy, technology and science. Culturally, however, Japan remains quite traditional and, unlike Switzerland, sees itself as a monolithic society. One consequence of this is the attempt to put a strict limit on the size of the foreign population. This could become a problem in the future, since Japan’s demography is facing a downright collapse. According to the latest predictions, the population will shrink from 127 million today to 85 million in 2050.

In 2012, there was only one Swiss student at Kyoto University, and there are now eight Japanese students at ETH. On the department level, there are 198 individual partnerships with Japanese universities, so there is a lot of potential for expanding student numbers.
Here we have to look at the different levels of education. For Swiss people it is rather difficult to do a PhD degree in Japan. A Swiss student whom I advised went to Japan and at first offended people with his outgoing behaviour. Moreover, hierarchy is much more important when dealing with professors than it is here. On the other hand, a Swiss PhD does not fit into a standard Japanese CV. Employers appreciate researchers who received all their education in Japan, since it is harder to evaluate foreign qualifications. However, it is regarded favourably when young researchers gain experience abroad as postdocs after obtaining their degrees.

What is attractive about this country from a scientific and cultural perspective?
It is part of the Japanese culture to stylise and develop activities to perfection. Their love of detail can be seen in their tea ceremonies, which are always carried out with meticulous precision. This perfectionism can also be found in science. For example in material samples: if they aren’t well prepared, this leads to problems in the experiment. A Japanese colleague of ours who is also taking part in the symposium produces the best samples worldwide in several material classes. His father was a confectioner who made sweets that were handed out during tea ceremonies. Many people say he inherited his perfectionism from his father.

The occasion for this symposium is the upcoming 150th anniversary of diplomatic relations between Switzerland and Japan. How will Japan develop in the future?
Japan is still the most dominant country in the Far East in terms of research and innovation. Korea and China are catching up, but investments probably pay off quicker in Japan because of the mentality. The Japanese are not easily distracted and they steadily pursue their path once they have embarked upon it.
One last comment: The first Swiss recorded to have been in Japan around 1804 was
Johann Casper Horner, a mathematician and physicist who later taught at a Zurich secondary school. Due to Japan’s isolationism at the time, he and his colleagues were received without much enthusiasm. This, of course, has changed completely. When I went there as a physics postdoc 24 years ago, I was welcomed very warmly.