What are the key requirements of an education system that ensures that everybody has the same opportunities?
ETH doctoral student Rolf Imseng comes from a working class family. Together with ETH Vice-President Julia Dannath and ETH Professor Ursula Renold, he talks about the hurdles that his background brings with it. A conversation about social mobility in Switzerland.
Rolf, you studied architecture at ETH Zurich and are now embarking on a doctoral project. You were the first person in your family to attend university. What led you to study at ETH?
Rolf Imseng: I come from a traditional working class family in the canton of Valais. My mother works in an admin role, and my father is an electrician. I spent most of my childhood with my grandparents, who had a background in farming and trades, where working with your hands was the norm. But I was determined to get my upper secondary school-leaving certificate and study architecture, and I was lucky enough to have a mother who backed me every step of the way.
Julia, you also completed secondary school and went on to higher education. Was that fairly typical for your family?
Julia Dannath: In my grandparents’ generation, the men earned the money, while the women mostly looked after the home and family. Things shifted slightly in the next generation, with my father and my uncles opting for an academic path, whereas my aunt and my mother followed a non-academic one. For me and my sister, going to university was a given, just as it was for my brother. That was definitely new to my generation. I wasn’t an academic high-flyer, especially at junior school, but my parents always believed in me – especially my father, who was a secondary school teacher. It was my parents who gave me the security and the confidence to pursue an academic career.
Ursula, you began your career with a dual VET programme offering a commercial apprenticeship, and now you’re Chair of Education Systems at ETH.
To be honest, I had absolutely zero interest in school when I was 15. I was more interested in how money works in society. It seemed to play an important role, so I opted for a VET programme in banking. But that was just a typical teenager mindset, and I soon developed a craving for knowledge. The vocational baccalaureate didn’t exist then, so I went back to do the federal academic baccalaureate. Because I wanted to be independent, I worked at the same time – and continued to do so right through my time studying economics, sociology and history. My first contact with ETH was in the 1990s, and I loved it so much that I stayed on as a researcher and later co-founded a spin-off company.
“Switzerland is a prime example of how to get this right and has an extremely flexible system.”Ursula Renold
You went on to become Director of the Federal Office for Professional Education and Technology. What lessons did you learn in that role?
Renold: I saw poor quality education systems in a lot of countries. It made me want to go back to ETH to find ways of helping those countries by transferring knowledge. Today, my chair offers assistance to around 30 countries, helping them to find sustainable ways of ensuring that all young people have equal access to education.
Dannath: So would you argue that the Swiss education system is a successful model that should be exported to other countries?
Renold: I have fairly radical views on that. We can’t export our system, but we can develop a theoretical basis that can help us identify what might be a functional equivalent in other countries. That might mean looking at how vocational education and training dovetails with stakeholders from the employment market, so that they can do a better job of integrating young professionals. For example, not all countries have professional associations. It’s about understanding each country and then pinpointing where you can make reforms to tackle things such as high youth unemployment. Italy, for example, has a youth unemployment rate of around 25 percent.
Social mobility is when an individual’s social status is not determined by their family background. What factors hinder social mobility?
Renold: First and foremost, most countries don’t have a flexible education system. Once a young person is on a specific track, they’re stuck on it.
“There was nobody in my family to show me the academic ropes.”Rolf Imseng
Is that true of Switzerland, too?
Renold: No, not at all! Switzerland is a prime example of how to get this right and has an extremely flexible system. I can’t think of any other country that does it better. That’s why I tell parents that it doesn’t matter where your child starts once they finish compulsory schooling. The main thing is to get through those difficult teenage years, and then there are so many different options on the table. You can also see from the data that we have a good socio-economic mix of students at our universities. In Switzerland, two out of every three young people complete a dual VET programme, which includes an apprenticeship. We have good social mobility here thanks to the vocational baccalaureate and the universities of applied sciences, which were set up in 1996. As of 2012, we’re actually seeing more people graduating from the universities of applied sciences than from universities. That’s exactly how it should be, because it’s what the Swiss economy needs.
Rolf Imseng, what obstacles have you faced?
Imseng: I really wanted to study at ETH because of its reputation in the world of architecture. But I quickly lost heart when I saw how expensive it is to study in Zurich. Fortunately, I won a scholarship from a foundation. That helped me keep my head above water in those early days, but there were still times when I found myself wondering where the money for the next semester would come from. I also faced a very different kind of obstacle in not having anybody from my family who could show me the academic ropes. My family has also never understood how a study programme – listening, learning and, in the case of architecture, building models – can be such hard work!
Dannath: Feeling like an outsider in your own family can’t be easy. It’s incredibly important to feel like you belong, and that’s just as true when you’re studying or working. I want everybody at ETH to have that feeling. One thing that can help is having a shared goal. For example, everyone at ETH is driven by the idea of providing education for the coming generation, creating knowledge and feeding that into society. It’s what unites us.
“Having equal access to educational opportunities means that people bring their own skills and their own vision. And then they can choose what they want to do.”Julia Dannath
But being an outsider does at least offer a certain freedom in the sense that you don’t have to follow in anyone’s footsteps?
Imseng: Absolutely, especially in architecture. I don’t have an architect father who I might end up disappointing! Studying architecture at ETH was a real challenge, but I managed it – and I did it for myself.
Renold: I felt something similar when I was working and doing my baccalaureate at the same time – the self-doubt and the inner conflict with myself and the people around me. But that experience is hugely beneficial for your subsequent career. You know what you’re capable of. You have the strategies you need to overcome challenges. And you set an example to others.
Dannath: Exactly, and we need those kinds of examples to highlight how diverse people are and to show that mobility can happen in all directions. Having equal access to educational opportunities means that people bring their own skills and their own vision. And then they can choose what they want to do.
The First Generation Network Zurich also emphasises the importance of role models.
Imseng: That’s right, and that’s why I got involved. Ever since I was a teaching assistant, I’ve been very open about my background, which is why younger students often came to talk to me. So, when they launched the First Generation Network Zurich last year, I was immediately on board. We’re all the first in our family to enter the academic world, and we meet up once a month to swap ideas and help each other out. I enjoy passing on my experience and responding to the kinds of questions that students’ families can’t answer, such as how doctoral studies work or what to wear to an interview.
Dannath: That’s important work you’re doing. The fact that the network has come from the community makes people much less inhibited and much more likely to share their experiences.
Renold: By making role models visible, we help foster social mobility.
About
Julia Dannath is Vice President for Personnel Development and Leadership at ETH Zurich.
Ursula Renold is Chair of Education Systems in the Department of Management, Technology and Economics at ETH Zurich.
Rolf Imseng is a doctoral student in the Department of Architecture at ETH Zurich and a member of the external page First Generation Network Zurich.
Dannath: Exactly, and there are some really prominent figures in that position. For example, Joël Mesot, the ETH President, was a first generation academic. Role models are also about how we identify: we build our sense of identity through shared origins, shared values and shared experiences. Your experiences, Rolf, will be very different to those of your family. That’s why we’ve adapted the core programme we offer on National Future Day. Only a third of the places are now reserved for the children of ETH members, so we’re actively promoting the involvement of children from families that have no ties to ETH. We want to generate a better mix. And we’ll need more of that kind of thinking if we want to create more role models and expand people’s horizons.
Imseng: My heart leaps when I hear you’re welcoming children from families with a nonacademic background! That’s exactly what I dreamed of when I was a kid